Interview: Wrnlrd
June 12 2008 at 07:51:41 AM  Annuit Coeptis… Virginia’s Wrnlrd operates in the most unlikely circles. The music’s orbit skirts and flirts with the drowned pathos of old American blues, the splintered strings of Bluegrass, even the boogie-woogie sock-hop of Little Richard. And seemingly in direct counterpoint, yet oddly complimentary is Wrnlrd’s embrace of Black Metal and all that it encompasses. In this man’s hands, however, it is whittled down to ambient source materials which are at once startling and provocative. The man behind the veil was upfront and articulate about all of the aforementioned. Wrnlrd’s Oneiromantical War sees a June 24 released on FSS. The Black Metal formula adheres to "short instrumental interlude" then "trudging, monochromatic composition" followed by more of the same. With Oneiromantical War (OW), you've subverted the paradigm considerably, countering with long, digressive ambient/instrumental passages that segue into potent short blasts of "song." How did you decide on this approach, and how much of this composition is actually composed? All of the albums have been live births. They come as whole units, with a title, structure, and a certain sound quality all attached to a grand concept. These concepts are usually the result of a period of intense research and immersion into various, seemingly unrelated subjects. Somehow these things inevitably coalesce into a single concept that is the basis for a new project, and despite all the research I am always surprised by how well things come together. My own role is usually as a medium, to follow instructions and stay out of the way. There have been times where I've written out music in advance, when the ideas demand it. But, as this album deals specifically with the subconscious, it was especially appropriate to compose nothing in advance, and to record spontaneously. Do you experiment with sounds in an effort to "let the composition happen" or do you know exactly where each piece is headed? There is an end point I have in mind, and I know roughly when that point will come. As in Jazz, there may be a key to begin with, or a simple phrase that serves as a corral for all subsequent improvisation. Also there is usually a lot of thought behind the title of the track, the images and sounds that title may suggest, my own sense of the numerological significance of its place in the album, etc., so that while we sit down to record without any rehearsed musical ideas, all improvisations are guided by these other non-musical concepts. It is a form of synesthesia. Numbers and words generate sounds, and I try to be as receptive to these things as possible so that we are rarely groping in total darkness. I've always thought of words having more qualities than just an assemblage of letters referring to another assemblage and letters and so on and so forth. Wittgenstein said that 'uttering a word was like striking a note on the keyboard of the imagination.' I would think you would be sympathetic to this aesthetic sense. But at the same time, your ideas appear to be more passive and removed from "interference." This is a very Hellenic concept, this understanding all these "forms" or "substances" and either allowing them to "become" or "actualize" on their own, or giving them a kick in the ass. I don't know about my ideas being removed from "interference". I would stop short of suggesting that there is any purity to these ideas... its all interference, really, all coming from the same brain, that mysterious, flawed instrument. It’s really just a matter of trying to avoid getting caught up in all the things I think I know, and find deeper concepts that are unfinished, elusive, something that exists on the edges of my capacity to understand. I think that’s the distinction I'd rather make, that I try to remove the ideas from conscious manipulation and planning. These kinds of pre-planned agendas tend to be excuses for showing off “talent” of some kind, which I find boring. I try not to limit myself to what I am "good" at. I think it’s a common artistic experience, to feel this distance from your own creations, to feel possessed while you are working. Even though you are absolutely the author of the work, you can't quite recall doing it. After awhile you learn to set up conditions that make it easier for these things to happen without you, more or less. Pretty cerebral stuff. And I would say that if one was able to limit contact to sleeve art, interviews with you, etc. that they would receive that music - which is admittedly cerebral - on a visceral level. It's physical music and it accesses the ear and the mind in disparate ways. Do you ever find yourself wanting to either strip the sound down, or the process in which the sound is created? Have you made music that is unbound by subtext or research? If so, how different was this for you and was it as rewarding? You don't need to know anything about physics to experience gravity. And knowing something about physics doesn't change the way your ass hits the floor. I doubt it’s possible to make music that doesn't have some kind of subtext. That is going to be determined by each listener anyway. Whether the artist is aware of it or not is possibly irrelevant. I don't know very much about Chinese pottery, but who am I to say it’s irrelevant to what I am doing? If someone comes along and finds that comparison meaningful, I have no business saying they are wrong. This could be seen in Jungian terms, too. Maybe there is a connectivity to these things that goes beyond my conscious agenda. I am often placing the music in a context of my own design, and that too is potentially irrelevant to someone else. But for what it’s worth, it interests me. Especially in the context of Black Metal, I find it worthwhile to have this system of hidden knowledge lurking behind the music itself. I don’t feel that the music is encumbered by the process that generates it, or the concepts that I use to frame it. I see them as two models of the same thing, really. If anything, the ideas and concepts surrounding the music are just as visceral and automatic as the music itself. My “research” is hardly scholarly. It’s driven by irrational urges. It’s not about objective knowledge. You know, the brain is an organ and it’s capable of all kinds of puzzling shit. It only has to answer to Logic if you work at it. The music is really born out of those things, and if Wrnlrd albums feel like soundtracks, as some people have said, I think that’s why... as a soundtrack refers to images, and its structure follows the flow of images and movement of things on a screen, so this music follows the visions and movements that gave it life. I tried to explain OW to Todd DePalma as "not Black Metal at all, but very much Black Metal." It's a pain in the ass to have to package music within genre pigeon holes anyway, and attempting to do that with something like OW does the music a great disservice, I think. When you're putting the music together are you aware of the genre constraints? And if so, are they something that you're working with or against? I've always had doubts as to whether Wrnlrd is Black Metal at all. I think it is most successful when these doubts are at their strongest. And I find that Black Metal remains... despite all that I have done. For me, genre is not something to fight with. On one level, Black Metal may have a very specific, rigid set of rules attached to it. But these rules are pretty arbitrary when you look at them from any distance. This is because they are mostly the creation of people who came later and tried to catalog or copy what the innovative personalities in the music have accomplished. And as always, history changes as time moves along and perspectives shift. I think Black Metal is as rigid as I want it to be. The Black Metal that I really value has always been about individual strength rather than conformity. But that doesn't mean that the old familiar components of the genre are off limits to me either. It just means I take what I need, those things that hold power and potential for me, and leave the rest. As a ready-made context, even a well-traveled genre is a very useful space to work from. And the borders are porous. Most if not all of the elements associated with black metal can be found in other music, other traditions and times. For me Black Metal is an intricate crossroads where many separate ideas may combine and amplify in unexpected ways. You say that elements of Black Metal can be found in other music, traditions, and times; yet the aesthetic iconography it's grounded in - subverted Christian icons, skeletal remains, ashen, "corpsepainted" visages - is quite static. You conspicuously utilize little to none of these. What are your thoughts on these aesthetic criteria, and does your lack of participation in them just an attempt to make malleable an idiom set in concrete? Nothing static about it, as far as I see it. I think people have chosen to see it that way because its useful for them, helps to reinforce the illusion of nihilism. But it’s only a point of view. There are potentially many others. American music has always dealt with the conflict between spiritual life and more earthbound impulses. It’s pretty well known that blues musicians like to go back and forth between gospel songs and songs about drinking, drug abuse, crippling depression and murder. You find it in American art, music, theater, politics... it is second nature, this spiritual tug of war. So once you have Americans making Black Metal I would expect very soon to find that old Heavy Metal infatuation with blasphemy being examined in the light of Samuel Clemens, William Faulkner, Jim Jones. Subverting the sacred is just one of those things we Americans do well, when we're not busy atoning for it. I would think Little Richard is relevant to this discussion, as much as any Metal band. Gospel music haunts us. Maybe there is room in Black Metal for some of that to come through in more ways than just inverting a crucifix. I think it’s pretty obvious to most people anyway that there’s a little reverence for Christ lurking behind every inverted cross. Just look at Little Richard with that Bible in his hand, shirt off, drenched in sweat... a man condemned to hell by his own belief system... that's America. In Wrnlrd's case, I’ve used makeup and costume frequently. For me it is a tool for getting into a certain mindset. It’s less interesting to me as a stylistic signal of genre. I am drawn by the primal power of it, so how it looks on the outside is sometimes less important to me than how it feels. I have also worn masks that I have made myself. Sometimes while in these dressings I have been able to embody some aspect of the music or concepts in a given album. I approach my photo shoots the same way I approach recording, building another model of the conceptual landscape I am working from. And while I am doing this, I am thinking back to the minstrels, magicians, freaks, Cindy Sherman and Jean Cocteau as much as I am thinking of Black Metal... You can write a book about corpsepaint, all the subtle shifts in its meaning as different people have used it in different ways. I think corpsepaint is just one shard from a fractured mirror, in which we may see pieces of our true face. And of course there are times when it’s just boneheaded conformity. Depends on how you look at it. Lately corpsepaint has been really interesting to me as a modern descendant of blackface minstrelsy. Sure Emmett Miller is not Black Metal, but he is reflected in it... somewhere. I'm sure that certain parallels are obvious. But it’s the more mysterious, suggestive connections between corpsepaint and blackface that are really useful. That primal act of painting the face brings a power conjured by denying the limitations of reality, of time. Embracing death. Embracing hatred, the id, wallowing in spite, loathing, all the feelings that tie us to our animal origins, acting out the dream of that agrarian past that died with the industrial revolution. And underneath it all... there is a weird kind of fear. A certain horror at the steady sweep of progress and the passage of time... a horror at our own evolution and the new responsibilities it brings. Corpsepaint erases this. It can be an awful pressure to feel this responsibility for the world around you, and how you interact with it. It’s easy to become disillusioned and look for ways to deny that kind of responsibility. Like a dog, a man in blackface does not feel the eye of Justice upon him. He is free to salivate and piss himself in the ecstasy of freedom. Freedom to fail, to suck, to be worthless. To be a hindrance to others. It is a way of embracing one's own lowest expectations of himself, coming to terms with them, finding strength in that weakness. I think it’s interesting that a simple thing like makeup can be so effectively used to express this very complex nexus of emotions. In other interviews you've mentioned your affinity for the music of Dock Boggs and Charley Patton. To me, these two created truly timeless music in that the sounds they created encapsulated the true human experience: the duality of beauty and horror and pain and pleasure that people are confronted with every day. What is it that attracts you to their music, and do you see yourself operating in a similar vein? I feel as much affinity for the music of Charley Patton as I do for the best of Black Metal bands. It is a lifelong interest, and its natural that it has found its way into Wrnlrd in different ways over time. I have always been reluctant to make more obvious musical hybrids of bluegrass or country blues and black metal. I hate the idea of tossing a banjo at a blast beat and calling it a crossover. The Pentagon album is where I found a way to get into this area most directly. The album is something akin to those old disaster songs, where you find people singing about historical disasters from their own local perspective. Here in the DC area, there is a long tradition of bluegrass. And Elizabeth Cotten lived here... that’s something I think about. It makes me feel connected to this area in a way that is inspiring at times. Her tune Freight Train has been a standard in my family for decades. So these things probably steered me toward including the banjo and fingerpicking the guitar on Pentagon. I don’t see it as something I will necessarily continue, as each album has its own sound. But the influence of that old music is much deeper, in my mind, than what you might hear on the surface. Much deeper than any choice of instruments. Patton, Boggs, Skip James, Dave Macon, all favorites of mine. You can hear something in their music that is much older than themselves. They were dealing with things that had developed over many years and changed many hands before coming to them. And you sense that some of their own greatness is generated by embracing that history, twisting themselves to fit into it, and vice versa... so that the result is something intensely personal and universal at the same time. I am especially interested in the ways that Black Metal may be bent to achieve this same kind of effect. Improvisation is one tool I have used to approach this. Many early Blues and Country musicians had a stream-of-consciousness approach to their material. They weren't songs so much as patterns, authored by no one, owned by everyone. Even when a song had a clear author, it could be absorbed into the music like any traditional tune. Musicians like Charley Patton would have these mental storehouses of musical patterns, text, lyric ideas, and they would arrange and rearrange them on the spot to produce a performance. It was not pure improvisation. It was improvised within a certain tradition, using certain common reference points. I think this is what I have found most inspiring and useful in my approach to Black Metal. Improvisation is just one of these multi-leveled crossroads where a lot of traditions might converge. In the U.S. we seem to be still congratulating ourselves that we have managed to make any form of Black Metal at all, which I find ridiculous. Our history is full of arcane horrors and epic beauty. We have been doing this dance between damnation and dreams for so long. And every so often we find ourselves making new music for it. It’s nothing new. It should be easy by now. It should be automatic. Explain your connections and/or opinions on the following people places and things: HARRY SMITH The Anthology has been an invaluable resource for me. The man himself is also an inspiration. Like Alan Lomax in a house of mirrors... there are many faces to Harry Smith. You get the feeling that all of them are reflections of a true face, too glorious for one man to wear. Here is a man who allowed himself to splinter. THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT I respond to the idea that humanity is connected, and all experience is universal on some level. I agree that all belief systems seem to contain some aspect of the truth. I don't trust the source of any system enough to surrender to it completely. You take what is useful to you, I think, and leave the rest. JANDEK Another masked marvel. He seems to work in collaboration with tradition and history. He obscures his own authorship, his own identity as "creator", in favor of something ethereal that suggests a communal ownership of the music and themes he touches. I think he (it) is something of a medium too. CORDWAINER SMITH The third Wrnlrd album, In From The Night Herd, was a monument to one of his stories, A Planet Named Shayol. He was a creative thinker who worked within a relatively narrow genre and made it bend to his will. When his own interests changed, he demanded the genre change with him. His imagination seems at times totally unrestrained and yet somehow reveals an underlying human truth that is always powerful. Another man who splintered. He is buried down the road at Arlington National. WASHINGTON D.C.'s STREET LAYOUT & URBAN DESIGN On the fifth album, Pentagon, I turned to my own every day surroundings and melded them with certain elements of the black metal vocabulary. Among other things, the album deals with the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon, the bluegrass tradition in the DC area, Agalmatomancy conducted with various well-known landmarks in the capital, some of the arcane, occult symbology hidden in the design of Washington DC, and the Masonic agenda at work in its planning and construction. In recording Pentagon, I came to see the layout of the city as a metaphor for the labyrinthian structure of the album, and of the multi-layered sound of Black Metal in general. It is possible to find the vocabulary of Black Metal in unlikely places, especially interesting to find it in places we take for granted as being wholesome, sterile, or innocuous. To find it preserved in stone on Federal property was an eye opener. [Stewart Voegtlin] Comments (0)
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