Interview: Averse Sefira

Browse through the list of American Black Metal bands and you notice a pattern; hundreds of names that all arrived around the same time, never did anything, and vanished for good. For years the very words, “Black Metal” and “America” placed side by side have been viewed as a paradox; politely referred to as a contradiction, but more frequently labeled (BY Americans), as a joke. Death Metal we were good at, for a time. We had more invested in it, gained a foothold early on and learned well from comic books, horror movies and Slayer. Then that became just another failed American enterprise.

Perhaps we’re already too disconnected culturally, creatively, to measure Black Metal as anything but an exotic; idealized the mythology of 1993 to such an extant that the music is regarded now, like some legendary herb, as a tonic growing far across the sea. Black Metal has been approached as a cure-all, an excuse, and the thing that for years it rallied against: Entertainment.

Because the symbols used to control our upbringing no longer satisfied we turned to Satan, blood and magic, and those too lost their potency with age; the transgression so painfully ordinary we finally had to “grow up.” So we headed toward the rivers and mountaintops, to placid illustrations of snow angels and ice-blue waves, turning the noise toward self-deprecation Ulver style, interpreting art only through a stubborn literalism and shrill politics. Are the Fjords Black Metal? Is the Pacific Northwest Black Metal? Art that could be so easily defined rots in view like a skewed sheep’s head and is replaced just as quickly.

Black Metal (yes, capitalized) captured life as majesty and obscenity (captured life through obscenity). The results too lofty to be taken up by anyone but the youngest, idealistic, most daring and naturally foolish members of a modern middle-class society and still capable in all cases of crushing its practitioner’s under its demanding will. That is the real occultism. For it is easier to split atoms than to parse something so close to the dynamic thrill of existence. You can’t break it down on paper; divide it into personalities and individuals, many of whom proved to be just as unexceptional save for that rare summer in each particular life, because it was always something greater than the personality involved. However, you can’t remove the man from the equation entirely. For all its grandiose posturing, Black Metal required both extreme naivety and arrogance, the potion distilled through the sound of young men dancing with their own thoughts. And when the songwriters turned away from themselves they betrayed the hollowness within. While many have followed after that initial blaze very few are the names listed who’ve walked this path with more than just a passing interest. Among them stands Adverse Sefira.

It’s been a busy year so far for the trio of Sanguine Mapsam (Guitar, vocals), Wrath Sathariel Diabolus (Bass, vocals) and The Carcass (Drums). The Texas-based outfit has already completed four weeks on the road with Immolation, Belphegor and Rotting Christ. The experience summed up on the group’s tour journal as a chance to render them “Immortal,” and with such ambition and nonpareil delivery presented on their latest and 4th record, Advent Parallax, it’s hard not to agree with their slated destiny. Recently, we caught up with Wrath to talk about the making of the new album, the bands growing worldwide acclaim and their relationship with artist Jos. A. Smith, just before AVRS headed out once more for dates in Mexico and Canada. Anoint. Alight. Align!

You finally signed with Candlelight Records in October of last year, ten years after you first came together as band. Prior to that, you had dedicated yourselves to promoting your music through live performances, becoming one of the most well traveled, if relatively obscure Metal bands from the U.S.A. You've written about the dedication involved and the validation that follows with being on the road. But this has little do with fame and how much merchandise was sold…

Wrath: We measure our success in grand experiences and not numbers or dollars. You'd have to be insane to be in a Black Metal band if you wanted much else.

Whether touring with a legendary group such as Emperor or bands like Goatwhore and Nachmystium, you tend to be the least recognized act on the bill. What are some of the obstacles in maintaining your presence as the opening band? What's the transition been like moving to some of the bigger shows, having to partner and work together with two, sometimes three other groups in putting on a show and what have you gained in "paying your dues" this way?

I would not say that is completely true. We were direct support for Emperor and we were treated with the according status. Outside of that the fact of the matter is that we are just now on a label that will actually do something for us in terms of proper “mainstream” exposure while many of the bands with whom we tour have enjoyed that situation for much longer. In signing with Candlelight we ceased to be a big fish in a small pond so we do indeed have to pay our dues in that regard.

One can't help noticing the amount of ire and derision you generate among different people. Even as you were still coming up through the ranks, those that were aware of the band were split evenly between rabid devotion and fanatic hatred. You've been accused of everything from being rock stars to overly dramatic, been mocked for your early attire, and written off by some as a joke. How do you interpret such glowing response?

You make it sound like we are pariahs in the underground, which is hardly the case. Sanguine and I are outspoken and selective people and early on in the US Black Metal eruption we quickly became known as a band who was not for all the moose lodge love-ins upon which so many others were fixated. We refused to be egalitarians and pay homage to other bands simply because they existed and for that we gained a difficult reputation in some circles. You'll notice we have historically gotten along with European bands just fine as we tend to share more ideals. And it is true that musically we were divisive in the past, though I would say that this is no longer the case. People in the underground have gotten used to bands like ours in regards to sound and scale, and we have been around for over a decade now so anyone who still thinks we are a joke are only fooling themselves. It took a decade for Beherit to get any respect, so I think we are on schedule.

That said, the following you have gained cannot be denied. I know that when you played two dates in Texas with Demilich last year - small shows they may have been, with little to no promotion outside of the internet – several fans in attendance traveled not only from across the country but even from overseas to see the double bill. How do you look back on that experience today?

It will always be a proud memory for us. The biggest rewards for us are to work with bands we like and endeavor in events that are special and unique. Playing with Demilich definitely meets that criteria; Antti is a true genius and the band was simply amazing on stage. They've gone to ground again so anyone who missed it missed it forever.


Now that you've had more experience on tour, what are your opinions of American audiences today? How do they differ state to state and how do you regard them vis-à-vis those you've played in front of elsewhere?

They are not what they were fifteen years ago, that much is certain. I was lucky enough to grow up in some of the best years of underground Metal (around 1986-1993), which was of course before the genre was in winter. We didn't have Pantera or the Black Album yet, and so much wisdom has been lost since then. I cannot hold it against new fans as they do not know the difference, but it is hard to not be nostalgic all the same. In America shows and audiences are hard to qualify as we've played the same venues multiple times to sometimes different results. In general they don't compare to European audiences who generally have a tighter grasp of Black Metal or the South American audiences who treat us like gods on earth. That said, we've still played plenty of great shows in the states, and I expect more of that to come as we move forward and our name continues to grow.

You chose to work with Tore Stjerna again to produce the new album, Advent Parallax. On first listen, this is probably your heaviest recording yet. The bass feels more imminent, threatening. The drums unsurpassed in force and clarity. The vocals no longer fend for themselves amidst the distant slashing of chords. Some of this was already true of your last album, Tetragrammatical Astygmata. How would you compare the two in terms of organization, entering the studio and adding the final touches? How long did it take to record the new album?

The fundamental difference between the two albums was a conscious decision to employ a warmer and more modern approach to the soundscape. Tore had great success with this on other recent productions and in the end this strategy brought out a lot of new dimensions to our music. Tetragrammatical... was comparatively more clinical than Advent Parallax in that we did not rework those songs as much once in the studio. Advent... was far more open and fluid in the way it was crafted and we made far more changes than anticipated. This proved to be a positive thing along with a useful learning experience in that we were able to create material outside of a preordained model. It took us a month to make the new album from start to finish, which was about the same amount of time as the previous album.

What kind of equipment did you bring into the studio this time?

It was also the same as last time. Sanguine plays through a Mesa Dual Rectifier, The Carcass uses a 12-piece Pearl Session kit, and I simply play direct into the board with a SansAmp DI.

You've steadily grown more confident in using silence and interludes as way to accent the extremity of the songs. On the earlier albums the interludes would follow more towards the end of a track and move into the next, bridging the two tracks together. With the new album, for example in "Séance in a Warrior's Memory," the rhythm is shed midway and re-intensifies after a short loop followed with maybe a second, no more, of complete silence.

The interludes were employed in more of a gestalt fashion this time, due in large part to the fact that we ended up with such a large amount of material. We might use them more next time; it will depend on what the album decides.

I thought "Serpent Recoil" was the biggest surprise as far as stand-alone tracks. It's probably the most melodic or closest thing to "catchy" the band has done so far…

More than the song “Battle's Clarion”? I suppose it is a matter of perception. The opening riff is definitely an anthem unto itself, but we never really set out to make one song catchier than another. We keep hearing about that particular song though, so perhaps we stumbled onto something.

Ross Dolan appears in "Refractions Of An Unexploded Singularity." Immolation has been a huge inspiration for the band over the years. What was it like working with him on the track?

It was fun and a profound honor at the same time. Ross has had numerous requests for vocals from bands far bigger than ours and he has always refused, so the fact that he agreed to do it for us was a career highlight for me. He is a generous and agreeable individual so it was very simple to get the desired results in the studio. The only difficult thing was working up the nerve to coach him or correct him. It would not be unlike going to da Vinci and saying, “I think that could use a little more green”.

You also had a stint as a roadie for Immolation some years ago, no?

Sanguine and I have both done a bit of that for the band. We only participated in select dates but not on any national tours. Ross invited me to do that on several occasions but I was always working on something with Averse Sefira each time so it never happened.

The language of the album - the dissonance of the music and working through the idiom of occult or Hermetic subject matter, semiotics, the invocation of numbers - continues to present Averse Sefira as a challenge. It's all much louder and the performance tighter this time, but still isn't music you want to play in your car. "It takes awhile," and, at least from my experience, can be demanding. The average track-length on this album is also between 6 - 7 minutes long. Musically, have you looked toward any influences outside of Metal (or Black Metal) for inspiration in how to build and arrange your songs?

Sanguine in particular is a classical music adherent but then he also enjoys Black Metal I can barely tolerate like Furze and Malvery. I don't know if that sheds any light on his methods. We are not out to alienate everyone with our music but invariably it happens. I don't worry about it, and even if I did there is not much that would change; we write our albums in ways that makes sense to us and if that means they are not candidates for easy consumption and subsequent disposal then so much the better.


The new album uncovers a bit of history as well. How did you first get in touch with Jos. A Smith and what was his reaction when he learned of his contribution to the iconography of Heavy Metal?

I contacted Jos when I discovered “The Machine for a Journey of Indeterminate Depth” in an old art magazine. I knew immediately that the piece was meant for our album. I looked him up at the Pratt Institute in New York and he was very enthusiastic about working with us. It turns out that Jos is a powerful adept himself, so our concepts and presentation resonated with his own sensibilities. He already knew about Bathory's heisting of the goat image from his book Witches since the beginning but thought little of it. He did not actually own the rights to much of the art he did for the book after it was published (there was a slippery contract involved). However, he had no idea that it had grown into such a famous icon until I told him about it and sent him numerous photos of Bathory tattoos and patch jackets.

The official Bathory website, which has not been updated since 2004, has a so-called history archive dedicated to chronicling the formation of the band by Quorthon up to the recording of several of Bathory's now classic LPs. The site's disclaimer assures visitors that a large amount of the text was gathered from materials related to a planned autobiography or else rewritten and cleared by Quorthon himself. According to the entry for the debut album, the now infamous "goat" was:

"…glued together from a collage of eyes, a nose and a mouth cut out from several horror comic magazines. Liberal amounts of tipex and black ink was used for masking and adding a few details such as the torso, fur, elongated ears and horns.

Though initially only thought of as something to use as an illustration for the cover of the debut album, and though it would rarely be used for the remainders of the 80's - not to mention the 90's - this goat would nevertheless become the symbol of BATHORY, much in the same way Eddie the head would be synonymous with Iron Maiden or camcorders with Mrs. Harding..."

Thoughts on that?

I agree the goat is indeed completely associated with Bathory, but the whole story about it being a collage is absurd. Anyone who looks at it can tell it was one drawing to begin with. I suppose if I were Quorthon I wouldn't have been anxious to admit I stole it either. At this point neither Jos nor I are trying to accomplish anything more than to set the record straight, and outside of that website most people are now aware of the real story so we are satisfied. I kept waiting for Bathory fans to come at me with claims that the theft was the other way around or something like that but it hasn't happened. Quorthon also lifted the lyrics for “For All Those Who Died” out of Witches so there's some additional proof as well. And for the record, just because Quorthon stole the art doesn't make it any less significant or Bathory any less important. I have the goat shirt and wear it all the time.

You've written for underground zines like Leather and Spikes (Can), and Oaken Throne magazine here in the States. Do you think being a an active, touring musician has made you more alert or sympathetic to certain things about recordings maybe other critics or listeners take for granted, that maybe they miss or find room to be petty about?

I am a very verbal person and a voracious reader as well so writing about topics that interest me comes naturally. What touring affords me is the chance to write about the unique experiences that come with such endeavors. There are plenty of bands with whom we've played who seem to ignore the larger implications of it all, so I would say that the desire and ability to write about such things is intrinsic rather than situational or else we would likely see more output from artists other than myself and Tom G. Warrior.

What do you make of reactions to the new album so far in the press?

It has been uniformly positive so it says to me that either we've finally created an album people can readily understand or else the underground has finally caught up with us to some degree. It is likely a bit of both, which is fine with us.

Starting with the last album the band has forgone using introductory notes to set up a concept, but there's still a continuity and conceptual thread in your work – musically and lyrically. How would you explain the philosophy, the focus and approach behind Averse Sefira from 1996 up to the present?

The demo Blasphomet Sin Abset was a stand-alone piece that focused on a mythological story of betrayal, but starting with our first album we began the long standing story arc about the thrall of divinity and the darkness behind it, astral combat, and the codex of magickal systems that function as the compass for our concepts and lyrics. Ultimately I am moving away from describing the specific elements involved as this question is asked too often and we would rather let people understand it for themselves (or not, as is sometimes the case).

There's one piece from the new album that I think captures the essence of the whole work for me and is powerfully rendered through one of the more intricate songs on the disc. These are the lines from "Viral Kinesis":

The Mind says, 'I am not of the Body. When the Body ceases, I will be set free. I direct the Shell to move.'

The Soul says, 'I am not of the Body. When Death comes, I shall reunite with the Void. I am the Engine of the Vessel.'

The Spirit says, 'I am not of the Body. If I die, there is no longer reason to Exist. I am the fuel that fills the Form and gives it Power.'

The Body says, 'It is only through Me that you are realized. I am that which makes you known. Without Me, you have no Home.'

The Fire says, 'I am your Master. I govern you all as Passions. The Body melts at my touch. The Spirit burns at ignition. The Soul ashes at recession. The Mind an inferno at my stoking.'

Therein is the key to the album, you are correct. Sanguine has always been one of my favorite lyricists. He was born in the wrong era; someone should be paying him to live on a tract of land in the hills where he can write and compose without the interruption of remedial daily responsibilities.

I think that art, the varieties of Metal in particular, can be divided in much the same way, according to the artist's intentions. Where do you stand?

Metal is art, art is Metal. It is a simple equation, yet somehow only a select few truly grasp it.

[Todd DePalma]

type: articles    keywords: black metal, interview, goats,   

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